[Psml] Fiberglass gas tank problems

Mon Apr 14 12:17:51 EDT 2008

Phil, Thanks for the comments. My Carver has been fresh water all its
service life, so I don't have any aluminum corrosion problems. Carver has
replied and referred me to Mercury for the answers, and I've found some more
references on line. It appears that the hoses might be OK after proper
inspection because CG required alcohol-compliant hoses in directives
starting in the mid 1980s. I'll probably change them all out anyway, but I
am concerned about carburetor seals and gaskets and fuel filter diaphragms,
so hope to hear from Mercury on this.  (I had a valve cover gasket problem
on a 1982 GM V-6 in a pickup that used RTV like gasket compound for the
valve covers that was soluble in E10!  New valve cover gaskets at about 12K
miles!) 

Another problem I've discovered in the web search is that once you switch
over to E10 you have to be very careful and NOT get any MTBE-oxygenated fuel
mixed in with the E10 cause it clogs fuel filters!  Also once E10 has phase
separated, it must be discarded quickly because the phase separated water
contains nearly all the ethanol and is extremely corrosive to aluminum tanks
and fuel system components, and the separated fuel is no longer oxygenated!
Most recommendations seem to indicate using your boat a lot so the fuel
shelf-life does not become a problem. (Not a bad thing, right?) Also lay-up
storage recommends empty tanks when using E10 vs full tanks as is the common
current practice. 

CG Boating Safety Circular 85 (March 07) had some comments from
"Professional Boatbuilder" magazine that indicate that good 10-micron
water-separating fuel filters would be very good to add, and it also
addresses the mixing problem of MTBE fuel and E10. 

Maybe when I get done with this review I'll try to write something up for
the Ensign in a summary form to save others from the websearch tedium. 

Dick 

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Arcuni [mailto:plarcuni at sprynet.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:24 AM
To: Dick Remski
Cc: 'United States Power Squadrons Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Psml] Fiberglass gas tank problems

Hi Dick,

Carver may not be in a position to provide informed advice regarding the 
engine parts. Try contacting the engine manufacturer or marinizer. They 
might be more knowledgeable and interested.

Replacing your 22 year-old fuel lines might be a good safety item, and 
should not be unreasonably costly.

Being in fresh water you will not have the problem I had with a foamed-in 
aluminum tank. Salt water leaked around the foam and corroded out the bottom

of the tank. Had to lift the sealed-in deck panel and dig out and replace 
the tank.

Phil Arcuni
Key West

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dick Remski" <rremski at woh.rr.com>
To: <plarcuni at sprynet.com>
Cc: "'United States Power Squadrons Mailing List'" <psml at usps.org>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Psml] Fiberglass gas tank problems

> What about other ethanol issues? I have aluminum tanks in a 1986 Carver
> Mariner and it is labeled "Do not use fuels containing ethanol" at the gas
> fill port. I believe there is concern over deterioration of the rubber 
> fuel
> lines, fuel pump diaphragms, and other "rubber" components in the fuel
> system. I have asked Carver for advice but have not received a reply yet.
> Anyone have experience with this issue?
>
> Some states have the policy that they do not have to inform the fuel
> purchaser whether ethanol is present or not!
>
> D/Lt/C Dick Remski, AP
> D/24 Dayton Sail and Power Squadron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: psml-bounces at usps.org [mailto:psml-bounces at usps.org] On Behalf Of
> Markus Ritter
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:56 AM
> To: rremski at woh.rr.com
> Cc: 'United States Power Squadrons Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Psml] Fiberglass gas tank problems
>
> Boat US is on top of this issue as well.
> http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/fueltest.asp
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: psml-bounces at usps.org [mailto:psml-bounces at usps.org] On Behalf Of 
> The
> Old Hokie
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:12 AM
> To: markusritter at hotmail.com
> Cc: United States Power Squadrons Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Psml] Fiberglass gas tank problems
>
> What a misdirected lawsuit!   It should be aimed at the Federal 
> Government,
> the ones who required the various refiners to re-formulate the gasoline to
> meet the EPA standards.   Trying to blame the oil companies is trying to
> blame the victims, not the guilty party.
>
> Dave Garthoff - Akron Squadron
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gene Duley" <gduley at mindspring.com>
> To: <garthoff at uakron.edu>
> Cc: "United States Power Squadrons Mailing List" <psml at usps.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:48 AM
> Subject: [Psml] Fiberglass gas tank problems
>
>
> Power Squadron Members;
>
>            If Consumer Affairs reports it-it is serious business.
> Regarding Public Relations-this bit of safety news should really get some
> name recognition for USPS-provided the Power Squadrons are willing to 
> spread
> it.  In addition to all of the Squadron Newsletters and Educational 
> classes,
> this information should (in my opinion) be placed on the VSC site in order
> for the Inspectors to spread the word.  The examiners could also call 
> those
> owners that they have already checked, to inform them of this real 
> problem.
>
> Personally, I had heard (several years ago) that the new gas adversely
> affected the "rubber" fuel lines.  Any gas in the bilge is an explosive
> situation!
>
> PC Gene Duley/Redondo Beach/D13
>
> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
>>From Consumer Affairs.com
>
>      Ethanol-Blended Fuel Blamed for Boaters' Problems
>      Blended fuel damages marine tanks, engines, the class action charges.
>
> A class action lawsuit charges that major oil companies are
> manufacturing and selling ethanol blended gasoline that damages marine 
> fuel
> tanks, engines and other components.
>      "The price of gas is bad enough, but selling gasoline that dissolves
> gas tanks is a new low even for the oil companies," said Brian Kabateck, 
> the
> lead attorney on the case. "The oil companies know this fuel is corrosive,
> but they're keeping consumers in the dark to pump up their profits. The 
> cost
> to the consumer is thousands of dollars in repairs."
>
>      Companies named in the suit include ExxonMobil, Chevron, BP, Shell,
> Valero, and ConocoPhillips, as well as PetroDiamond, Tower Energy and Big
> West.
>
>      Oil companies have long mixed additives into their gasoline as a way
> to boost octane. Methyl tert-butyl ether, commonly known as MTBE, was 
> widely
> used as an octane booster until 2004, when it was banned in many states
> because of environmental concerns. In response, ExxonMobil, Chevron and
> other oil companies selected ethanol as a replacement.
>
>      Consumers were never informed about the differences between MTBE and
> ethanol-mixed gasoline, nor were they informed about the disastrous 
> effects
> ethanol has on fiberglass marine fuel tanks.
>
>      Fiberglass is widely used in the construction of boat fuel tanks.
> Fiberglass is a combination of individual glass "threads" bound together 
> by
> a resin. Ethanol dissolves this resin, destroying the tank. Moreover, the
> dissolved resin enters the fuel system, causing damage to the engine and
> other components.
>
>      Ethanol blended gasoline is particularly harmful in the marine
> environment because of "phase separation," Kabateck said. Ethanol attracts
> water. When enough water is absorbed by the ethanol blended gasoline, the
> ethanol and water solution separates from the gasoline (phase separation),
> with the gasoline floating to the top.
>
>      This results in a layer of water with a high-concentration of ethanol
> at the bottom of the fuel tank.
>
>      "The environment pays the price for Exxon and Chevron's deception 
> each
> time a damaged fuel tank leaks gasoline into the water," Kabateck added.
>
>      The suit was filed in U.S. District Court, Central District of
> California in Los Angeles.
>
>      The suit seeks to represent a class comprising all owners of boats
> with fiberglass fuel tanks who filled their tanks with ethanol blended
> gasoline from a California retailer. The suit also seeks to represent all
> persons in California who own boats with a fiberglass fuel tank that had 
> to
> be replaced because of damage caused by ethanol blended gasoline bought 
> from
> a California retailer.
>
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