From donkers at aps.anl.gov Wed Mar 19 08:25:37 2008 From: donkers at aps.anl.gov (Dave Donkers) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:25:37 -0500 Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? Message-ID: <47E10641.6080702@aps.anl.gov> Greetings -- OK - this is a bit long, but bear with me..... I have just come across the USPS Guide, "The One-Minute Guide to the Nautical Rules of the Road", by Charlie Wing, published by McGraw-Hill and available through USPS. I have found it to be an excellent guide to the rules, written in plain language and giving clear descriptions of what the rules mean to recreational boaters. It's an "easy read" - you can pick it up and start anywhere and get something useful out of it. It has a section that has the Rules in full (with some explanatory material added). No, I haven't proofed it to check that it's accurate word-for-word. The reason I'm writing this is not as a book review, but because the book states on the cover that it "Satisfies Coast Guard requirements for carrying the rules on board". 33CFR88.05 states "The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready reference a copy of the Inland Navigation Rules." Hmmmm... No mention of having to carry the International Rules, but I'm sure that's in there somewhere. 8^) As Vessel Examiners can we accept this book instead of the traditional red/white/blue bound COMDINST M16672xxxx? Almost more importantly, if we pass a vessel that is only carries this book and they get inspected by the USCG, will the USCG accept it? I don't want to put a boater in a position where they might get a ticket for something we accept - they've got our name and phone number on the form. I know the argument that "If you've got the money for a boat XX feet long, spend the money for a 'regulation' copy...". Let's face it, money is tight, and I'd rather suggest a copy of the rules that gets used that having one that sits in a locker getting moldy. By the way, the book lists for $18.95 on the McGraw-Hill website, but your SEO can order them for $13.50. If they're acceptable, sell them for 15 or 16 bucks and let your squadron make some money. Any advice, approvals, comments etc.? Dave Donkers VSC Chair Education Officer DuPage Power Squadron From ShaunMcA at aol.com Wed Mar 19 14:42:56 2008 From: ShaunMcA at aol.com (ShaunMcA at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:42:56 EDT Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? Message-ID: Dave, Since the USCG does the boarding and is the ultimate arbiter, I suggest asking them. P/C Shaun McArdle, AP Vessel Examiner SAN DIEGO SAIL& POWER SQUADRON **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/ecb40e16/attachment-0001.html From Urgolapete at aol.com Wed Mar 19 16:22:41 2008 From: Urgolapete at aol.com (Urgolapete at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:22:41 EDT Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? Message-ID: Dave, On first blush I would say it doesn't qualify but I will forward to our Technical Division Chief for a more in depth review. Pete In a message dated 3/19/2008 8:46:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, donkers at aps.anl.gov writes: Greetings -- OK - this is a bit long, but bear with me..... I have just come across the USPS Guide, "The One-Minute Guide to the Nautical Rules of the Road", by Charlie Wing, published by McGraw-Hill and available through USPS. I have found it to be an excellent guide to the rules, written in plain language and giving clear descriptions of what the rules mean to recreational boaters. It's an "easy read" - you can pick it up and start anywhere and get something useful out of it. It has a section that has the Rules in full (with some explanatory material added). No, I haven't proofed it to check that it's accurate word-for-word. The reason I'm writing this is not as a book review, but because the book states on the cover that it "Satisfies Coast Guard requirements for carrying the rules on board". 33CFR88.05 states "The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready reference a copy of the Inland Navigation Rules." Hmmmm... No mention of having to carry the International Rules, but I'm sure that's in there somewhere. 8^) As Vessel Examiners can we accept this book instead of the traditional red/white/blue bound COMDINST M16672xxxx? Almost more importantly, if we pass a vessel that is only carries this book and they get inspected by the USCG, will the USCG accept it? I don't want to put a boater in a position where they might get a ticket for something we accept - they've got our name and phone number on the form. I know the argument that "If you've got the money for a boat XX feet long, spend the money for a 'regulation' copy...". Let's face it, money is tight, and I'd rather suggest a copy of the rules that gets used that having one that sits in a locker getting moldy. By the way, the book lists for $18.95 on the McGraw-Hill website, but your SEO can order them for $13.50. If they're acceptable, sell them for 15 or 16 bucks and let your squadron make some money. Any advice, approvals, comments etc.? Dave Donkers VSC Chair Education Officer DuPage Power Squadron _______________________________________________ ve-l mailing list ve-l at usps.org http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/1af19869/attachment.html From rdaybell at earthlink.net Wed Mar 19 17:16:28 2008 From: rdaybell at earthlink.net (rdaybell at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:16:28 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [ve-l] ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 Message-ID: <939842.1205961389418.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> The Wing book on rules of the road is the one now used in the USPS Seamanship Class. -----Original Message----- >From: ve-l-request at usps.org >Sent: Mar 19, 2008 11:43 AM >To: RDAYBELL at earthlink.net >Subject: ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 > >Send ve-l mailing list submissions to > ve-l at usps.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ve-l-request at usps.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > ve-l-owner at usps.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of ve-l digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. New West Marine Discount Coupons Available (Robert Miller) > 2. VSC Errors (Robert Miller) > 3. Coast Guard to Emphasize Life Jacket Wear (Robert Miller) > 4. USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? (Dave Donkers) > 5. Re: USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? > (ShaunMcA at aol.com) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:15:21 -0800 >From: "Robert Miller" >Subject: [ve-l] New West Marine Discount Coupons Available >To: "ve-1" >Cc: 'Ron LaPlante R/C' , "'Harold J. > Morris - D25'" , 'Harold Oslick - D/Lt/C' > , afwkxtn at juno.com, "'Luis A. Ojeda- R/C'" > , Shirley Van Rhee , "Ron > D. Werner - D28" , 'Bob Palmer SN' > , Tish Cullen - D13 , 'Bob > Miller - Stf/C' , Tom Roscoe > , Joe Leitz , 'Everett > W Stebbins - P/D/C' , Shamus O'Fraherty - D-32 > , John Robinson , Dan Joyce - > , Vessel Examiners Discussion Group > >Message-ID: <001101c859f5$b6338b30$6500a8c0 at epoxkitchen> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >All VEs, > > > >The West Marine has authorized VSC Discount Program again for 2008. The >coupons are available for download and printing from the VSC home page >http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/. They should be printed two sided if at >all possible and can be black and white but the barcode must be visible to >be accepted. > > > >Vessel Safety Checks Save Lives, > > > >Bob Miller > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080118/c3f70c13/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:10:16 -0800 >From: "Robert Miller" >Subject: [ve-l] VSC Errors >To: "ve-1" >Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Message-ID: <003001c86cd9$5b2f51f0$6500a8c0 at epoxkitchen> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Ahoy VEs, > > > >We now have 2008 status on the VSC web site. We also have our first month of >ERROR reports. There are a few duplicates showing up so far but we have an >inordinate number of reports for NON-QUALIFIED examiners. In fact a full >11+% of all VSCs reported to date are for non-qualified examiners. Please >check the reports online to get these corrected. Thanks from your National >VSC Committee. > > > >Regards, > > > >Stf/C Bob Miller > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080211/da361e64/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:15:30 -0800 >From: "Robert Miller" >Subject: [ve-l] Coast Guard to Emphasize Life Jacket Wear >To: "ve-1" >Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Message-ID: <005801c8796c$bce80410$6500a8c0 at epoxkitchen> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Coast Guard to Emphasize Life Jacket Wear February 27 2008 > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >A key outcome of the Coast Guard's Recreational Boating Safety program is to >reduce loss of life on the water. A major component of that program is to >convince boaters to wear their life jackets while on the water. Various >media campaigns have been utilized in the past without a major shift in the >desired outcome. > > > >A Vessel Safety Check (VSC) provides the vessel examiner an opportunity to >educate the boater on the value and importance of life jacket wear. During >the VSC, the criteria for selecting, sizing, and inspection of life jackets >is reviewed and demonstrated to the boater. > > > >Public education courses are another venue to demonstrate the variety of >life jackets available. Of paramount interest is the inflatable life jacket >which offers the boater a comfortable and reliable life saving option. > > > >Public affairs activities, such as safety exhibits at boat shows, provide >another venue to illustrate to the public the variety of life jackets >available in the market place. > > > >The Coast Guard's Office of Auxiliary and Boating Safety firmly believes >that our vessel examiners, public educators and public affairs >representatives should be role models for life jacket wear and are >encouraging them to wear their life jackets during vessel safety checks, >public education classes, and public affair events. As an incentive for >demonstrating the "right behavior" on and around the water, inflatable life >jackets branded with the "Wear It" logo will be made available (on a loner >basis) to each Flotilla and Squadron. > > > >Inflatable life jackets will be distributed to local units which will be >responsible for the custody, maintenance, and utilization of this equipment >and annual reporting of the local inventory through respective chain of >command to the Office of Auxiliary and Boating Safety, Program Operations >Branch (CG-54222). The expectation is that they will be leveraged to provide >the maximum possible exposure to support the wearing of life jackets. > > > > > > > >Peter Urgola, > > >USCG Auxiliary > > >Chief, Vessel Examination Dept. > > > >Bob Miller > >US Power Squadrons > >Chairman, VSC Committee > > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080227/532d7149/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:25:37 -0500 >From: Dave Donkers >Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? >To: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Message-ID: <47E10641.6080702 at aps.anl.gov> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > >Greetings -- > >OK - this is a bit long, but bear with me..... > >I have just come across the USPS Guide, "The One-Minute >Guide to the Nautical Rules of the Road", by Charlie Wing, >published by McGraw-Hill and available through USPS. > >I have found it to be an excellent guide to the rules, >written in plain language and giving clear descriptions >of what the rules mean to recreational boaters. It's an >"easy read" - you can pick it up and start anywhere and >get something useful out of it. > >It has a section that has the Rules in full (with some >explanatory material added). No, I haven't proofed it to >check that it's accurate word-for-word. > >The reason I'm writing this is not as a book review, but >because the book states on the cover that it "Satisfies >Coast Guard requirements for carrying the rules on board". > >33CFR88.05 states "The operator of each self-propelled >vessel 12 meters or more in length shall carry on board >and maintain for ready reference a copy of the Inland >Navigation Rules." Hmmmm... No mention of having to carry >the International Rules, but I'm sure that's in there >somewhere. 8^) > >As Vessel Examiners can we accept this book instead of the >traditional red/white/blue bound COMDINST M16672xxxx? > >Almost more importantly, if we pass a vessel that is only >carries this book and they get inspected by the USCG, will >the USCG accept it? I don't want to put a boater in a >position where they might get a ticket for something we >accept - they've got our name and phone number on the form. > >I know the argument that "If you've got the money for a boat >XX feet long, spend the money for a 'regulation' copy...". >Let's face it, money is tight, and I'd rather suggest a copy >of the rules that gets used that having one that sits in a >locker getting moldy. > >By the way, the book lists for $18.95 on the McGraw-Hill >website, but your SEO can order them for $13.50. If they're >acceptable, sell them for 15 or 16 bucks and let your >squadron make some money. > >Any advice, approvals, comments etc.? > >Dave Donkers >VSC Chair >Education Officer >DuPage Power Squadron > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:42:56 EDT >From: ShaunMcA at aol.com >Subject: Re: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? >To: donkers at aps.anl.gov >Cc: ve-l at usps.org >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Dave, > >Since the USCG does the boarding and is the ultimate arbiter, I suggest >asking them. > >P/C Shaun McArdle, AP >Vessel Examiner >SAN DIEGO SAIL& POWER SQUADRON > > > >**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL >Home. >(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/ecb40e16/attachment.html > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >ve-l mailing list >ve-l at usps.org >http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l > > >End of ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 >*********************************** R.D. Daybell From padipro at gulftel.com Wed Mar 19 18:44:18 2008 From: padipro at gulftel.com (Richard Carson) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:44:18 -0500 Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? References: <47E10641.6080702@aps.anl.gov> Message-ID: <000f01c88a12$c456b3c0$e697c263@PADI> Hello Dave: Recent VSCs have brought out versions of the Rules of the Road marked "SATISFIES COAST GUARD REQUIREMENTS OF CARRYING THE RULES OF THE ROAD." Included are: 1- THE One-Minute Guide to the Nautical Rules of the Road by Charlie Wing and published by International Marine / McGraw Hill. 2 - NAVIGATION RULES (RULES OF THE ROAD) FOR INTERNATIONAL AND INLAND WATERS with copyright 1999, Paradise Cay Publications. 3 - NAVIGATION RULES, INTERNATIONAL - INLAND, Presented by Paradise Cay Publications Inc., Arcata, CA Number 3 claims to be a complete copy of the Navigation Rules for International & Inland Waters as presented by the USCG. If doubt as indicated by follow-on comments that these publications do NOT satisfy Coast Guard Requirements proves valid, it seems to me we have one large mess of misrepresentation and associated legal ramifications. Thanks for bringing this out, and hope for early resolution. Dick Carson / Perdido Bay VSC Chair. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Donkers" To: Cc: "Vessel Examiners Discussion Group" Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? > Greetings -- > > OK - this is a bit long, but bear with me..... > > I have just come across the USPS Guide, "The One-Minute > Guide to the Nautical Rules of the Road", by Charlie Wing, > published by McGraw-Hill and available through USPS. > > I have found it to be an excellent guide to the rules, > written in plain language and giving clear descriptions > of what the rules mean to recreational boaters. It's an > "easy read" - you can pick it up and start anywhere and > get something useful out of it. > > It has a section that has the Rules in full (with some > explanatory material added). No, I haven't proofed it to > check that it's accurate word-for-word. > > The reason I'm writing this is not as a book review, but > because the book states on the cover that it "Satisfies > Coast Guard requirements for carrying the rules on board". > > 33CFR88.05 states "The operator of each self-propelled > vessel 12 meters or more in length shall carry on board > and maintain for ready reference a copy of the Inland > Navigation Rules." Hmmmm... No mention of having to carry > the International Rules, but I'm sure that's in there > somewhere. 8^) > > As Vessel Examiners can we accept this book instead of the > traditional red/white/blue bound COMDINST M16672xxxx? > > Almost more importantly, if we pass a vessel that is only > carries this book and they get inspected by the USCG, will > the USCG accept it? I don't want to put a boater in a > position where they might get a ticket for something we > accept - they've got our name and phone number on the form. > > I know the argument that "If you've got the money for a boat > XX feet long, spend the money for a 'regulation' copy...". > Let's face it, money is tight, and I'd rather suggest a copy > of the rules that gets used that having one that sits in a > locker getting moldy. > > By the way, the book lists for $18.95 on the McGraw-Hill > website, but your SEO can order them for $13.50. If they're > acceptable, sell them for 15 or 16 bucks and let your > squadron make some money. > > Any advice, approvals, comments etc.? > > Dave Donkers > VSC Chair > Education Officer > DuPage Power Squadron > _______________________________________________ > ve-l mailing list > ve-l at usps.org > http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l > > From donkers at aps.anl.gov Fri Mar 21 12:11:48 2008 From: donkers at aps.anl.gov (Dave Donkers) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 11:11:48 -0500 Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? In-Reply-To: <47E10641.6080702@aps.anl.gov> References: <47E10641.6080702@aps.anl.gov> Message-ID: <47E3DE44.9090102@aps.anl.gov> Greetings again -- Thanks to all who gave comments. I decided to wait a bit on my replies to let the comments come in. Some of the things I've checked out, and a few replies... DOT (Department of Transportation) may work with USCG, but USCG is under Department of Homeland Security. Different Departments - there are no "USDOT USCG requirements". Where can we find out what USCG trains its officers to accept as a "copy of the Inland Navigation Rules"? I'm going to play the devil's advocate for a moment and ask what rule/law/whatever defines this? Doesn't USPS have at least an informal working relationship with the USCG, with contacts we can talk to get clarification on issues like this? My name is Dave, but I'll pass along to Don when I meet him that I'm new as SEO, and I did find this book as a part of the S course material. If this is something I should have known in the 10 years before I became SEO, then I'm guilty. In a careful rereading of the introduction, Wing states "By law, all vessels of twenty meters or more in length that operate in U.S. Inland Waters are required to carry an up-to-date copy of the Rules. ... This book ... satisfies this requirement." Yes, and vessels twelve meters or more in length need to carry it, too. The biggest difference I can see is that this book's presentation of the Rules doesn't look like Paradise Cay's printing of the 'official' GPO printing of the rules. The GPO Rules also have to be updated, something you don't have to do right now with this book or the Paradise Cay book. For that matter, what makes Paradise Cay's publication "official"? I'm not criticizing what they do, but what makes a publication OK? I've been trying to contact anyone at USCG MSO Chicago without any results so far. What I think we need to know is 1) Is this (or any non-GPO printing of the Rules) 'legitimate'? 2) What makes it so? 3) Where does it say so? 4) If it is OK, how do we make sure that those who carry it won't get ticketed? I agree that a change in the requirements is not appropriate - I just want to know the rules of the game (so to speak). 8^) In my (sometimes not-so-humble) opinion, we as boaters are better off with a copy of the Rules that gets used (read this as READ) rather than one that gets abandoned or set aside because it can be difficult to use. I'm dedicated and curious enough to want to know things, and have read the Rules and dug into CFR and USC to find out arcana, but I don't expect the average J. Boater to be that way. The VSC program is supposed to be educational as an adjunct to the safety aspects. If we can do both (and maybe help YOUR squadron make a few bucks), aren't we ahead of the game? Let's see what we can find out. Dave Donkers, SN General Factotum Unofficial Gadfly Dedicated Logician Inveterate Free-Thinker Dave Donkers wrote: > Greetings -- > > OK - this is a bit long, but bear with me..... > > I have just come across the USPS Guide, "The One-Minute > Guide to the Nautical Rules of the Road", by Charlie Wing, > published by McGraw-Hill and available through USPS. > > I have found it to be an excellent guide to the rules, > written in plain language and giving clear descriptions > of what the rules mean to recreational boaters. It's an > "easy read" - you can pick it up and start anywhere and > get something useful out of it. > > It has a section that has the Rules in full (with some > explanatory material added). No, I haven't proofed it to > check that it's accurate word-for-word. > > The reason I'm writing this is not as a book review, but > because the book states on the cover that it "Satisfies > Coast Guard requirements for carrying the rules on board". > > 33CFR88.05 states "The operator of each self-propelled > vessel 12 meters or more in length shall carry on board > and maintain for ready reference a copy of the Inland > Navigation Rules." Hmmmm... No mention of having to carry > the International Rules, but I'm sure that's in there > somewhere. 8^) > > As Vessel Examiners can we accept this book instead of the > traditional red/white/blue bound COMDINST M16672xxxx? > > Almost more importantly, if we pass a vessel that is only > carries this book and they get inspected by the USCG, will > the USCG accept it? I don't want to put a boater in a > position where they might get a ticket for something we > accept - they've got our name and phone number on the form. > > I know the argument that "If you've got the money for a boat > XX feet long, spend the money for a 'regulation' copy...". > Let's face it, money is tight, and I'd rather suggest a copy > of the rules that gets used that having one that sits in a > locker getting moldy. > > By the way, the book lists for $18.95 on the McGraw-Hill > website, but your SEO can order them for $13.50. If they're > acceptable, sell them for 15 or 16 bucks and let your > squadron make some money. > > Any advice, approvals, comments etc.? > > Dave Donkers > VSC Chair > Education Officer > DuPage Power Squadron > _______________________________________________ > ve-l mailing list > ve-l at usps.org > http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l From boatsafe at comcast.net Fri Mar 21 13:13:31 2008 From: boatsafe at comcast.net (Robert Miller) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:13:31 -0700 Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? In-Reply-To: <47E3DE44.9090102@aps.anl.gov> References: <47E10641.6080702@aps.anl.gov> <47E3DE44.9090102@aps.anl.gov> Message-ID: <004101c88b76$e3568880$6500a8c0@epoxkitchen> Dave, The question is being researched by Pete Urgola who is the VSC Liaison with the Coast Guard. He expects to have an answer next week. Stay tuned. Cheers, R/C Bob Miller USPS VSC Com Chair -----Original Message----- From: ve-l-bounces at usps.org [mailto:ve-l-bounces at usps.org] On Behalf Of Dave Donkers Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:12 AM To: boatsafe at comcast.net Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Subject: Re: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? Greetings again -- Thanks to all who gave comments. I decided to wait a bit on my replies to let the comments come in. Some of the things I've checked out, and a few replies... DOT (Department of Transportation) may work with USCG, but USCG is under Department of Homeland Security. Different Departments - there are no "USDOT USCG requirements". Where can we find out what USCG trains its officers to accept as a "copy of the Inland Navigation Rules"? I'm going to play the devil's advocate for a moment and ask what rule/law/whatever defines this? Doesn't USPS have at least an informal working relationship with the USCG, with contacts we can talk to get clarification on issues like this? My name is Dave, but I'll pass along to Don when I meet him that I'm new as SEO, and I did find this book as a part of the S course material. If this is something I should have known in the 10 years before I became SEO, then I'm guilty. In a careful rereading of the introduction, Wing states "By law, all vessels of twenty meters or more in length that operate in U.S. Inland Waters are required to carry an up-to-date copy of the Rules. ... This book ... satisfies this requirement." Yes, and vessels twelve meters or more in length need to carry it, too. The biggest difference I can see is that this book's presentation of the Rules doesn't look like Paradise Cay's printing of the 'official' GPO printing of the rules. The GPO Rules also have to be updated, something you don't have to do right now with this book or the Paradise Cay book. For that matter, what makes Paradise Cay's publication "official"? I'm not criticizing what they do, but what makes a publication OK? I've been trying to contact anyone at USCG MSO Chicago without any results so far. What I think we need to know is 1) Is this (or any non-GPO printing of the Rules) 'legitimate'? 2) What makes it so? 3) Where does it say so? 4) If it is OK, how do we make sure that those who carry it won't get ticketed? I agree that a change in the requirements is not appropriate - I just want to know the rules of the game (so to speak). 8^) In my (sometimes not-so-humble) opinion, we as boaters are better off with a copy of the Rules that gets used (read this as READ) rather than one that gets abandoned or set aside because it can be difficult to use. I'm dedicated and curious enough to want to know things, and have read the Rules and dug into CFR and USC to find out arcana, but I don't expect the average J. Boater to be that way. The VSC program is supposed to be educational as an adjunct to the safety aspects. If we can do both (and maybe help YOUR squadron make a few bucks), aren't we ahead of the game? Let's see what we can find out. Dave Donkers, SN General Factotum Unofficial Gadfly Dedicated Logician Inveterate Free-Thinker ve-l From dhoward61 at msn.com Mon Mar 24 11:39:07 2008 From: dhoward61 at msn.com (David Howard) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:39:07 -0400 Subject: [ve-l] David sent you a friend request on Tagged :) Message-ID: <200803241539.m2OFd7em006430@usps.usps.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080324/19348a85/attachment.html From canderson289 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 24 12:47:12 2008 From: canderson289 at yahoo.com (Colleen Anderson) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ve-l] email Message-ID: <648570.41757.qm@web44813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080324/ed19abf7/attachment.html From seapony3585 at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 24 14:03:44 2008 From: seapony3585 at sbcglobal.net (ROBERT HARRISON) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ve-l] jetskies Message-ID: <5209.58484.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Does the state of Illinois require a jetski to carry a safety flare? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080324/25d5355c/attachment.html From donkers at aps.anl.gov Mon Mar 24 15:05:25 2008 From: donkers at aps.anl.gov (Dave Donkers) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:05:25 -0500 Subject: [ve-l] jetskies In-Reply-To: <5209.58484.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <5209.58484.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47E7FB75.2060708@aps.anl.gov> Robert -- According to the current Illinois handout and the Boat Illinois material, they are not required if the boat is less than 16 feet in length. On Lake Michigan, they must have "visual distress signals as required and approved by the U,S. Coast Guard" - COLREGS has waving arms listed as a VDS. Basically - required, no. On Lake Michigan - there have been PWC operators break down or run out of gas miles offshore and spend days before rescue. If they have room. I'd strongly recommend them. Dave Donkers DuPage ROBERT HARRISON wrote: > Does the state of Illinois require a jetski to carry a safety flare? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ve-l mailing list > ve-l at usps.org > http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l From rlaplante at wideopenwest.com Mon Mar 24 15:40:14 2008 From: rlaplante at wideopenwest.com (ron) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:40:14 -0400 Subject: [ve-l] jetskies References: <5209.58484.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003d01c88de6$e1a17af0$74210e45@mary> Hi Robert, I would recommend that you research the Illinois DNR for the answer to your question. You must be careful to know the local requirements, when doing Vessel Safety Checks out of your area or on vessels that are used in waters of another State. Good Luck Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: ROBERT HARRISON To: rlaplante at wideopenwest.com Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:03 PM Subject: [ve-l] jetskies Does the state of Illinois require a jetski to carry a safety flare? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ve-l mailing list ve-l at usps.org http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080324/c762e081/attachment.html From donkers at aps.anl.gov Mon Mar 24 16:23:27 2008 From: donkers at aps.anl.gov (Dave Donkers) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:23:27 -0500 Subject: [ve-l] Visual Distress Signals In-Reply-To: <058c01c88de7$9e824b40$db86e1c0$@net> References: <5209.58484.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47E7FB75.2060708@aps.anl.gov> <058c01c88de7$9e824b40$db86e1c0$@net> Message-ID: <47E80DBF.3000309@aps.anl.gov> Kevin -- The question was do Illinois regs require PWCs to carry flares - To quote Illinois Combined Statues 625 ILCS 45 Boat Registration and Safety Act, "Sec. 4-12. Visual distress signals. It is unlawful to operate any watercraft on the waters of Lake Michigan without having onboard visual distress signals as required and approved by the U.S. Coast Guard, so placed as to be readily accessible and in such condition as to be ready for immediate and effective use." The relevant part of that is "as _required_ and approved by the U.S. Coast Guard". If they are not on Lake Michigan, they are not required and it goes on the right side of the form under "Inland VDS". Otherwise, it goes back to the length of the boat, and VDSs are not required under 16 feet. If a PWC is 16' or over, then they are required. As I said before, PWCs on Loch Mich without VDSs are just looking for trouble, but it is their choice. Dave Donkers DuPage (Western suburbs of Chicago) VSC Chair KevinR wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ve-l-bounces at usps.org On Behalf Of Dave Donkers >> >> On Lake Michigan, they must have "visual distress >> signals as required and approved by the U,S. Coast >> Guard" - COLREGS has waving arms listed as a VDS. > > Waving arms, firing a gun every minute, showing an open flame, continuous > sounding of a fog horn, activation of an EPIRB or sending the radio > telegraph alarm signal are all recognized signals for distress, but they are > all most definitely NOT Visual Distress Signals. > > When a VE is checking for VDS during a VSC, only the signals listed in the > VE manual are acceptable. > > Kevin Redden > From 7seas at whidbey.net Wed Mar 19 18:11:26 2008 From: 7seas at whidbey.net (Rod Barnes) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:11:26 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Subject: [ve-l] ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 References: <939842.1205961389418.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <47E18F8D.000018.03092@7SEAS> That makes the Wing Book a reference, but perhaps not the Authority to replace CG-169 Colregs. -------Original Message------- From: rdaybell at earthlink.net Date: 19-Mar-08 14:58:27 To: 7seas at whidbey.net Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Subject: Re: [ve-l] ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 The Wing book on rules of the road is the one now used in the USPS Seamanship Class. -----Original Message----- >From: ve-l-request at usps.org >Sent: Mar 19, 2008 11:43 AM >To: RDAYBELL at earthlink.net >Subject: ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 > >Send ve-l mailing list submissions to > ve-l at usps.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ve-l-request at usps.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > ve-l-owner at usps.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of ve-l digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. New West Marine Discount Coupons Available (Robert Miller) > 2. VSC Errors (Robert Miller) > 3. Coast Guard to Emphasize Life Jacket Wear (Robert Miller) > 4. USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? (Dave Donkers) > 5. Re: USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? > (ShaunMcA at aol.com) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:15:21 -0800 >From: "Robert Miller" >Subject: [ve-l] New West Marine Discount Coupons Available >To: "ve-1" >Cc: 'Ron LaPlante R/C' , "'Harold J. > Morris - D25'" , 'Harold Oslick - D/Lt/C' > , afwkxtn at juno.com, "'Luis A. Ojeda- R/C'" > , Shirley Van Rhee , "Ron > D. Werner - D28" , 'Bob Palmer SN' > , Tish Cullen - D13 , 'Bob > Miller - Stf/C' , Tom Roscoe > , Joe Leitz , 'Everett > W Stebbins - P/D/C' , Shamus O'Fraherty - D-32 > , John Robinson , Dan Joyce - > , Vessel Examiners Discussion Group > >Message-ID: <001101c859f5$b6338b30$6500a8c0 at epoxkitchen> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >All VEs, > > > >The West Marine has authorized VSC Discount Program again for 2008. The >coupons are available for download and printing from the VSC home page >http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/. They should be printed two sided if at >all possible and can be black and white but the barcode must be visible to >be accepted. > > > >Vessel Safety Checks Save Lives, > > > >Bob Miller > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080118/c3f70c13/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:10:16 -0800 >From: "Robert Miller" >Subject: [ve-l] VSC Errors >To: "ve-1" >Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Message-ID: <003001c86cd9$5b2f51f0$6500a8c0 at epoxkitchen> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Ahoy VEs, > > > >We now have 2008 status on the VSC web site. We also have our first month of >ERROR reports. There are a few duplicates showing up so far but we have an >inordinate number of reports for NON-QUALIFIED examiners. In fact a full >11+% of all VSCs reported to date are for non-qualified examiners. Please >check the reports online to get these corrected. Thanks from your National >VSC Committee. > > > >Regards, > > > >Stf/C Bob Miller > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080211/da361e64/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:15:30 -0800 >From: "Robert Miller" >Subject: [ve-l] Coast Guard to Emphasize Life Jacket Wear >To: "ve-1" >Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Message-ID: <005801c8796c$bce80410$6500a8c0 at epoxkitchen> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Coast Guard to Emphasize Life Jacket Wear February 27 2008 > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >A key outcome of the Coast Guard's Recreational Boating Safety program is to >reduce loss of life on the water. A major component of that program is to >convince boaters to wear their life jackets while on the water. Various >media campaigns have been utilized in the past without a major shift in the >desired outcome. > > > >A Vessel Safety Check (VSC) provides the vessel examiner an opportunity to >educate the boater on the value and importance of life jacket wear. During >the VSC, the criteria for selecting, sizing, and inspection of life jackets >is reviewed and demonstrated to the boater. > > > >Public education courses are another venue to demonstrate the variety of >life jackets available. Of paramount interest is the inflatable life jacket >which offers the boater a comfortable and reliable life saving option. > > > >Public affairs activities, such as safety exhibits at boat shows, provide >another venue to illustrate to the public the variety of life jackets >available in the market place. > > > >The Coast Guard's Office of Auxiliary and Boating Safety firmly believes >that our vessel examiners, public educators and public affairs >representatives should be role models for life jacket wear and are >encouraging them to wear their life jackets during vessel safety checks, >public education classes, and public affair events. As an incentive for >demonstrating the "right behavior" on and around the water, inflatable life >jackets branded with the "Wear It" logo will be made available (on a loner >basis) to each Flotilla and Squadron. > > > >Inflatable life jackets will be distributed to local units which will be >responsible for the custody, maintenance, and utilization of this equipment >and annual reporting of the local inventory through respective chain of >command to the Office of Auxiliary and Boating Safety, Program Operations >Branch (CG-54222). The expectation is that they will be leveraged to provide >the maximum possible exposure to support the wearing of life jackets. > > > > > > > >Peter Urgola, > > >USCG Auxiliary > > >Chief, Vessel Examination Dept. > > > >Bob Miller > >US Power Squadrons > >Chairman, VSC Committee > > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080227/532d7149/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:25:37 -0500 >From: Dave Donkers >Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? >To: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Message-ID: <47E10641.6080702 at aps.anl.gov> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > >Greetings -- > >OK - this is a bit long, but bear with me..... > >I have just come across the USPS Guide, "The One-Minute >Guide to the Nautical Rules of the Road", by Charlie Wing, >published by McGraw-Hill and available through USPS. > >I have found it to be an excellent guide to the rules, >written in plain language and giving clear descriptions >of what the rules mean to recreational boaters. It's an >"easy read" - you can pick it up and start anywhere and >get something useful out of it. > >It has a section that has the Rules in full (with some >explanatory material added). No, I haven't proofed it to >check that it's accurate word-for-word. > >The reason I'm writing this is not as a book review, but >because the book states on the cover that it "Satisfies >Coast Guard requirements for carrying the rules on board". > >33CFR88.05 states "The operator of each self-propelled >vessel 12 meters or more in length shall carry on board >and maintain for ready reference a copy of the Inland >Navigation Rules." Hmmmm... No mention of having to carry >the International Rules, but I'm sure that's in there >somewhere. 8^) > >As Vessel Examiners can we accept this book instead of the >traditional red/white/blue bound COMDINST M16672xxxx? > >Almost more importantly, if we pass a vessel that is only >carries this book and they get inspected by the USCG, will >the USCG accept it? I don't want to put a boater in a >position where they might get a ticket for something we >accept - they've got our name and phone number on the form. > >I know the argument that "If you've got the money for a boat >XX feet long, spend the money for a 'regulation' copy...". >Let's face it, money is tight, and I'd rather suggest a copy >of the rules that gets used that having one that sits in a >locker getting moldy. > >By the way, the book lists for $18.95 on the McGraw-Hill >website, but your SEO can order them for $13.50. If they're >acceptable, sell them for 15 or 16 bucks and let your >squadron make some money. > >Any advice, approvals, comments etc.? > >Dave Donkers >VSC Chair >Education Officer >DuPage Power Squadron > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:42:56 EDT >From: ShaunMcA at aol.com >Subject: Re: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? >To: donkers at aps.anl.gov >Cc: ve-l at usps.org >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Dave, > >Since the USCG does the boarding and is the ultimate arbiter, I suggest >asking them. > >P/C Shaun McArdle, AP >Vessel Examiner >SAN DIEGO SAIL& POWER SQUADRON > > > >**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL >Home. >(http://home.aol com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/ecb40e16/attachment.html > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >ve-l mailing list >ve-l at usps.org >http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l > > >End of ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 >*********************************** R.D. Daybell _______________________________________________ ve-l mailing list ve-l at usps.org http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/3a01e272/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 36179 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/3a01e272/attachment-0001.gif From 7seas at whidbey.net Wed Mar 19 15:46:35 2008 From: 7seas at whidbey.net (Rod Barnes) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:46:35 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? References: Message-ID: <47E16D9B.000013.03572@7SEAS> I'll put my oar in the water. Since in the Puget Sound area is all International Waters, and many boaters go to Canadian waters as well....be safe, have the USCG COLREGS on board. P/D/Lt/C Roderick Barnes, SN VE Deception Pass Sail & Power Sqd. -------Original Message------- From: ShaunMcA at aol.com Date: 19-Mar-08 11:57:37 To: 7seas at whidbey.net Cc: ve-l at usps.org Subject: Re: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? Dave, Since the USCG does the boarding and is the ultimate arbiter, I suggest asking them. P/C Shaun McArdle, AP Vessel Examiner SAN DIEGO SAIL& POWER SQUADRON Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/c9ceac91/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 36179 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/c9ceac91/attachment-0001.gif From kfredden at verizon.net Mon Mar 24 15:45:30 2008 From: kfredden at verizon.net (KevinR ) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:45:30 -0400 Subject: [ve-l] Visual Distress Signals (was: jetskies) In-Reply-To: <47E7FB75.2060708@aps.anl.gov> References: <5209.58484.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47E7FB75.2060708@aps.anl.gov> Message-ID: <058c01c88de7$9e824b40$db86e1c0$@net> > -----Original Message----- > From: ve-l-bounces at usps.org On Behalf Of Dave Donkers > > On Lake Michigan, they must have "visual distress > signals as required and approved by the U,S. Coast > Guard" - COLREGS has waving arms listed as a VDS. Waving arms, firing a gun every minute, showing an open flame, continuous sounding of a fog horn, activation of an EPIRB or sending the radio telegraph alarm signal are all recognized signals for distress, but they are all most definitely NOT Visual Distress Signals. When a VE is checking for VDS during a VSC, only the signals listed in the VE manual are acceptable. Kevin Redden From jbbaskin at mchsi.com Mon Mar 24 17:39:36 2008 From: jbbaskin at mchsi.com (jbbaskin at mchsi.com) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:39:36 +0000 Subject: [ve-l] ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4 Message-ID: <032420082139.28316.47E81F98000C846000006E9C219791280203010CD2079C080C03BF0207059C0E0D0D06@mchsi.com> Please change my email address to jbbaskin at comcast.net ---------------------- Original Message: --------------------- From: ve-l-request at usps.org To: jbbaskin at mchsi.com Subject: ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:37:24 +0000 > Send ve-l mailing list submissions to > ve-l at usps.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ve-l-request at usps.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ve-l-owner at usps.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ve-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? (Rod Barnes) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:46:35 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) > From: "Rod Barnes" <7seas at whidbey.net> > Subject: Re: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? > To: > Cc: ve-l at usps.org > Message-ID: <47E16D9B.000013.03572 at 7SEAS> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I'll put my oar in the water. Since in the Puget Sound area is all > International Waters, and many boaters go to Canadian waters as well....be > safe, have the USCG COLREGS on board. > P/D/Lt/C Roderick Barnes, SN > VE Deception Pass Sail & Power Sqd. > -------Original Message------- > > From: ShaunMcA at aol.com > Date: 19-Mar-08 11:57:37 > To: 7seas at whidbey.net > Cc: ve-l at usps.org > Subject: Re: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? > > Dave, > > Since the USCG does the boarding and is the ultimate arbiter, I suggest > asking them. > > P/C Shaun McArdle, AP > Vessel Examiner > SAN DIEGO SAIL& POWER SQUADRON > > > > > > > Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/c9ceac91/attachment.html > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/gif > Size: 36179 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : > http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/c9ceac91/attachment.gif > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ve-l mailing list > ve-l at usps.org > http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l > > > End of ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4 > *********************************** From boatsafe at comcast.net Wed Mar 26 15:27:31 2008 From: boatsafe at comcast.net (Robert Miller) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:27:31 -0700 Subject: [ve-l] VSC on Coast Guard Patrolled Waters Message-ID: <002f01c88f77$6f9dec80$6500a8c0@epoxkitchen> Ahoy VEs, The situation described below may apply to Coast Guard patrolled waters in areas other than the one reference below so I am sending this out to all VEs for information. ================================ One of the Squadron VSC Chairs in D16 brought to my attention that he had reports of USCG boarding officers possibly not recognizing the VSC decal as representing a valid safety review of the boat or something to that effect. Prompted by his inquiry I contacted the responsible people in the local Coast Guard Sector Office to make them aware of the possible problem. To summarize the discussions, everyone I spoke with agreed that the patrols should recognize the value of the VSC process and the VSC Decal. However, the situation on the water is evolving and the Coast Guard is trying to do more random boarding to improve their awareness and training. This means that some boats will be boarded in spite of having a current VSC decal. This should not be viewed as a failure of our VSC program but rather a confirmation that our CG folks are trying to stay on top of their game. Fewer boats on the water will likely mean that any boat out there has a higher probability of a random sample boarding. Vessel Examiners have a role in this process. We should be helping to set peoples expectations. We should advise boat owners and operators that, though the decal will likely reduce the probability of a random boarding, it certainly does not guaranty it. We should also be making boaters aware that CG presence and random boarding will have a high probability of increasing anytime the security threat increases for any reason. Thanks for all you folks do to save lives. Best Regards, R/C Bob Miller VSC Committee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080326/5777fd78/attachment.html From Clarkcubed at aol.com Thu Mar 27 05:11:50 2008 From: Clarkcubed at aol.com (Clarkcubed at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:11:50 EDT Subject: [ve-l] VSC on Coast Guard Patrolled Waters Message-ID: Bob: We should not imply any relationship between our inspections and the boarding possibilities of the USCG, because there is none. Don Clark D/C D 23 In a message dated 3/26/2008 3:43:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, boatsafe at comcast.net writes: Ahoy VEs, The situation described below may apply to Coast Guard patrolled waters in areas other than the one reference below so I am sending this out to all VEs for information. ================================ One of the Squadron VSC Chairs in D16 brought to my attention that he had reports of USCG boarding officers possibly not recognizing the VSC decal as representing a valid safety review of the boat or something to that effect. Prompted by his inquiry I contacted the responsible people in the local Coast Guard Sector Office to make them aware of the possible problem. To summarize the discussions, everyone I spoke with agreed that the patrols should recognize the value of the VSC process and the VSC Decal. However, the situation on the water is evolving and the Coast Guard is trying to do more random boarding to improve their awareness and training. This means that some boats will be boarded in spite of having a current VSC decal. This should not be viewed as a failure of our VSC program but rather a confirmation that our CG folks are trying to stay on top of their game. Fewer boats on the water will likely mean that any boat out there has a higher probability of a random sample boarding. Vessel Examiners have a role in this process. We should be helping to set peoples expectations. We should advise boat owners and operators that, though the decal will likely reduce the probability of a random boarding, it certainly does not guaranty it. We should also be making boaters aware that CG presence and random boarding will have a high probability of increasing anytime the security threat increases for any reason. Thanks for all you folks do to save lives. Best Regards, R/C Bob Miller VSC Committee _______________________________________________ ve-l mailing list ve-l at usps.org http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080327/b9f74a63/attachment.html From j_rr7 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 09:47:10 2008 From: j_rr7 at yahoo.com (John Robinson) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 06:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ve-l] Status Message-ID: <834120.22481.qm@web52502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Being an area rep I have noticed a few subtle, to say the least, changes. None of the following was discussed in Dallas and I'm wondering why. 1st. Dan and Tom Roscoe were assigned areas, East and West of the Mississippi. What is the chain of command now? 2nd. Apparently there is a role for the SEOs, leadership? Are the SEOs aware of this change? 3rd. As an area rep, what is or are my responsibilities. I'm not against change, but would like to know if and when they occur. jr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080328/222ac87b/attachment-0001.html From killawyer at msn.com Sat Mar 29 04:08:55 2008 From: killawyer at msn.com (Katharine Law) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 01:08:55 -0700 Subject: [ve-l] ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Bob; With regard to the probability of boarding, I always advise the boaters when I'm doing a VSC that. although we cannot guarantee that there is a lesser prospect of boarding, we can assure them that--if boarded--they will have an infinitely more satisfactory experience than if they had NOT had a VSC. Katharine S. Law Sam Diego SPS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080329/ed9a99d4/attachment.html From whiteley at marshall.edu Wed Mar 26 09:37:10 2008 From: whiteley at marshall.edu (Whiteley, John F) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:37:10 -0400 Subject: [ve-l] COLREGS Message-ID: <4BE529AECDBFDE4881928CE53FCB2FE06D95C4BF2C@MUXC10.marshall.edu> If Rod Barnes is carrying CG-169, he is really out of date! :-) Since the mid-1970's the old CG-169 has been in the COMDTINST series of instructions (COMDTINST M16672.series). IMHO, as a former USCG Marine Inspector and Senior Investigating Officer, it's the words that count, not who printed them. If a publication has all the rules as printed in 33 CFR (for Inland waters) and the IMO Convention (for International waters) you should be all right. (Of course, they must be kept up to date.) For example, my copy of COMDTINST M16672.2D was actually printed by Lighthouse Press, a division of ProStar Publishers, not the Government Printing Office. However, a disclaimer inside the front cover states that it satisfies all Coast Guard requirements of 33 CFR 164.33 (Charts and Publications). Captain John F. Whiteley, MS Director, Inland Waterways Academy Marshall Community and Technical College 304-697-5616 (office) 304-697-5611 (Fax) 304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell) 304-437-3321 (Cell) whiteley at marshall.edu ________________________________________ From: ve-l-bounces at usps.org [ve-l-bounces at usps.org] On Behalf Of ve-l-request at usps.org [ve-l-request at usps.org] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 4:51 PM To: Whiteley, John F Subject: ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 3 Send ve-l mailing list submissions to ve-l at usps.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ve-l-request at usps.org You can reach the person managing the list at ve-l-owner at usps.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ve-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? (Robert Miller) 2. David sent you a friend request on Tagged :) (David Howard) 3. email (Colleen Anderson) 4. jetskies (ROBERT HARRISON) 5. Re: jetskies (Dave Donkers) 6. Re: jetskies (ron) 7. Re: Visual Distress Signals (Dave Donkers) 8. Re: ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 (Rod Barnes) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:13:31 -0700 From: "Robert Miller" Subject: Re: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? To: "'Dave Donkers'" Cc: 'Vessel Examiners Discussion Group' Message-ID: <004101c88b76$e3568880$6500a8c0 at epoxkitchen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dave, The question is being researched by Pete Urgola who is the VSC Liaison with the Coast Guard. He expects to have an answer next week. Stay tuned. Cheers, R/C Bob Miller USPS VSC Com Chair -----Original Message----- From: ve-l-bounces at usps.org [mailto:ve-l-bounces at usps.org] On Behalf Of Dave Donkers Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:12 AM To: boatsafe at comcast.net Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Subject: Re: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? Greetings again -- Thanks to all who gave comments. I decided to wait a bit on my replies to let the comments come in. Some of the things I've checked out, and a few replies... DOT (Department of Transportation) may work with USCG, but USCG is under Department of Homeland Security. Different Departments - there are no "USDOT USCG requirements". Where can we find out what USCG trains its officers to accept as a "copy of the Inland Navigation Rules"? I'm going to play the devil's advocate for a moment and ask what rule/law/whatever defines this? Doesn't USPS have at least an informal working relationship with the USCG, with contacts we can talk to get clarification on issues like this? My name is Dave, but I'll pass along to Don when I meet him that I'm new as SEO, and I did find this book as a part of the S course material. If this is something I should have known in the 10 years before I became SEO, then I'm guilty. In a careful rereading of the introduction, Wing states "By law, all vessels of twenty meters or more in length that operate in U.S. Inland Waters are required to carry an up-to-date copy of the Rules. ... This book ... satisfies this requirement." Yes, and vessels twelve meters or more in length need to carry it, too. The biggest difference I can see is that this book's presentation of the Rules doesn't look like Paradise Cay's printing of the 'official' GPO printing of the rules. The GPO Rules also have to be updated, something you don't have to do right now with this book or the Paradise Cay book. For that matter, what makes Paradise Cay's publication "official"? I'm not criticizing what they do, but what makes a publication OK? I've been trying to contact anyone at USCG MSO Chicago without any results so far. What I think we need to know is 1) Is this (or any non-GPO printing of the Rules) 'legitimate'? 2) What makes it so? 3) Where does it say so? 4) If it is OK, how do we make sure that those who carry it won't get ticketed? I agree that a change in the requirements is not appropriate - I just want to know the rules of the game (so to speak). 8^) In my (sometimes not-so-humble) opinion, we as boaters are better off with a copy of the Rules that gets used (read this as READ) rather than one that gets abandoned or set aside because it can be difficult to use. I'm dedicated and curious enough to want to know things, and have read the Rules and dug into CFR and USC to find out arcana, but I don't expect the average J. Boater to be that way. The VSC program is supposed to be educational as an adjunct to the safety aspects. If we can do both (and maybe help YOUR squadron make a few bucks), aren't we ahead of the game? Let's see what we can find out. Dave Donkers, SN General Factotum Unofficial Gadfly Dedicated Logician Inveterate Free-Thinker ve-l ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:39:07 -0400 From: David Howard Subject: [ve-l] David sent you a friend request on Tagged :) To: ve-l at usps.org Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Message-ID: <200803241539.m2OFd7em006430 at usps.usps.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080324/19348a85/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:47:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Colleen Anderson Subject: [ve-l] email To: ve-l at usps.org Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Message-ID: <648570.41757.qm at web44813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080324/ed19abf7/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:03:44 -0700 (PDT) From: ROBERT HARRISON Subject: [ve-l] jetskies To: ve-l at usps.org Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Message-ID: <5209.58484.qm at web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does the state of Illinois require a jetski to carry a safety flare? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080324/25d5355c/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:05:25 -0500 From: Dave Donkers Subject: Re: [ve-l] jetskies To: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Message-ID: <47E7FB75.2060708 at aps.anl.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Robert -- According to the current Illinois handout and the Boat Illinois material, they are not required if the boat is less than 16 feet in length. On Lake Michigan, they must have "visual distress signals as required and approved by the U,S. Coast Guard" - COLREGS has waving arms listed as a VDS. Basically - required, no. On Lake Michigan - there have been PWC operators break down or run out of gas miles offshore and spend days before rescue. If they have room. I'd strongly recommend them. Dave Donkers DuPage ROBERT HARRISON wrote: > Does the state of Illinois require a jetski to carry a safety flare? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ve-l mailing list > ve-l at usps.org > http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:40:14 -0400 From: "ron" Subject: Re: [ve-l] jetskies To: "ROBERT HARRISON" Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Message-ID: <003d01c88de6$e1a17af0$74210e45 at mary> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Robert, I would recommend that you research the Illinois DNR for the answer to your question. You must be careful to know the local requirements, when doing Vessel Safety Checks out of your area or on vessels that are used in waters of another State. Good Luck Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: ROBERT HARRISON To: rlaplante at wideopenwest.com Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:03 PM Subject: [ve-l] jetskies Does the state of Illinois require a jetski to carry a safety flare? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ve-l mailing list ve-l at usps.org http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080324/c762e081/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:23:27 -0500 From: Dave Donkers Subject: Re: [ve-l] Visual Distress Signals To: "'Vessel Examiners Discussion Group'" Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Message-ID: <47E80DBF.3000309 at aps.anl.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Kevin -- The question was do Illinois regs require PWCs to carry flares - To quote Illinois Combined Statues 625 ILCS 45 Boat Registration and Safety Act, "Sec. 4-12. Visual distress signals. It is unlawful to operate any watercraft on the waters of Lake Michigan without having onboard visual distress signals as required and approved by the U.S. Coast Guard, so placed as to be readily accessible and in such condition as to be ready for immediate and effective use." The relevant part of that is "as _required_ and approved by the U.S. Coast Guard". If they are not on Lake Michigan, they are not required and it goes on the right side of the form under "Inland VDS". Otherwise, it goes back to the length of the boat, and VDSs are not required under 16 feet. If a PWC is 16' or over, then they are required. As I said before, PWCs on Loch Mich without VDSs are just looking for trouble, but it is their choice. Dave Donkers DuPage (Western suburbs of Chicago) VSC Chair KevinR wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ve-l-bounces at usps.org On Behalf Of Dave Donkers >> >> On Lake Michigan, they must have "visual distress >> signals as required and approved by the U,S. Coast >> Guard" - COLREGS has waving arms listed as a VDS. > > Waving arms, firing a gun every minute, showing an open flame, continuous > sounding of a fog horn, activation of an EPIRB or sending the radio > telegraph alarm signal are all recognized signals for distress, but they are > all most definitely NOT Visual Distress Signals. > > When a VE is checking for VDS during a VSC, only the signals listed in the > VE manual are acceptable. > > Kevin Redden > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:11:26 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Rod Barnes" <7seas at whidbey.net> Subject: Re: [ve-l] ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 To: Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Message-ID: <47E18F8D.000018.03092 at 7SEAS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That makes the Wing Book a reference, but perhaps not the Authority to replace CG-169 Colregs. -------Original Message------- From: rdaybell at earthlink.net Date: 19-Mar-08 14:58:27 To: 7seas at whidbey.net Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Subject: Re: [ve-l] ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 The Wing book on rules of the road is the one now used in the USPS Seamanship Class. -----Original Message----- >From: ve-l-request at usps.org >Sent: Mar 19, 2008 11:43 AM >To: RDAYBELL at earthlink.net >Subject: ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 > >Send ve-l mailing list submissions to > ve-l at usps.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ve-l-request at usps.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > ve-l-owner at usps.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of ve-l digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. New West Marine Discount Coupons Available (Robert Miller) > 2. VSC Errors (Robert Miller) > 3. Coast Guard to Emphasize Life Jacket Wear (Robert Miller) > 4. USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? (Dave Donkers) > 5. Re: USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? > (ShaunMcA at aol.com) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:15:21 -0800 >From: "Robert Miller" >Subject: [ve-l] New West Marine Discount Coupons Available >To: "ve-1" >Cc: 'Ron LaPlante R/C' , "'Harold J. > Morris - D25'" , 'Harold Oslick - D/Lt/C' > , afwkxtn at juno.com, "'Luis A. Ojeda- R/C'" > , Shirley Van Rhee , "Ron > D. Werner - D28" , 'Bob Palmer SN' > , Tish Cullen - D13 , 'Bob > Miller - Stf/C' , Tom Roscoe > , Joe Leitz , 'Everett > W Stebbins - P/D/C' , Shamus O'Fraherty - D-32 > , John Robinson , Dan Joyce - > , Vessel Examiners Discussion Group > >Message-ID: <001101c859f5$b6338b30$6500a8c0 at epoxkitchen> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >All VEs, > > > >The West Marine has authorized VSC Discount Program again for 2008. The >coupons are available for download and printing from the VSC home page >http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/. They should be printed two sided if at >all possible and can be black and white but the barcode must be visible to >be accepted. > > > >Vessel Safety Checks Save Lives, > > > >Bob Miller > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080118/c3f70c13/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:10:16 -0800 >From: "Robert Miller" >Subject: [ve-l] VSC Errors >To: "ve-1" >Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Message-ID: <003001c86cd9$5b2f51f0$6500a8c0 at epoxkitchen> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Ahoy VEs, > > > >We now have 2008 status on the VSC web site. We also have our first month of >ERROR reports. There are a few duplicates showing up so far but we have an >inordinate number of reports for NON-QUALIFIED examiners. In fact a full >11+% of all VSCs reported to date are for non-qualified examiners. Please >check the reports online to get these corrected. Thanks from your National >VSC Committee. > > > >Regards, > > > >Stf/C Bob Miller > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080211/da361e64/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:15:30 -0800 >From: "Robert Miller" >Subject: [ve-l] Coast Guard to Emphasize Life Jacket Wear >To: "ve-1" >Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Message-ID: <005801c8796c$bce80410$6500a8c0 at epoxkitchen> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Coast Guard to Emphasize Life Jacket Wear February 27 2008 > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >A key outcome of the Coast Guard's Recreational Boating Safety program is to >reduce loss of life on the water. A major component of that program is to >convince boaters to wear their life jackets while on the water. Various >media campaigns have been utilized in the past without a major shift in the >desired outcome. > > > >A Vessel Safety Check (VSC) provides the vessel examiner an opportunity to >educate the boater on the value and importance of life jacket wear. During >the VSC, the criteria for selecting, sizing, and inspection of life jackets >is reviewed and demonstrated to the boater. > > > >Public education courses are another venue to demonstrate the variety of >life jackets available. Of paramount interest is the inflatable life jacket >which offers the boater a comfortable and reliable life saving option. > > > >Public affairs activities, such as safety exhibits at boat shows, provide >another venue to illustrate to the public the variety of life jackets >available in the market place. > > > >The Coast Guard's Office of Auxiliary and Boating Safety firmly believes >that our vessel examiners, public educators and public affairs >representatives should be role models for life jacket wear and are >encouraging them to wear their life jackets during vessel safety checks, >public education classes, and public affair events. As an incentive for >demonstrating the "right behavior" on and around the water, inflatable life >jackets branded with the "Wear It" logo will be made available (on a loner >basis) to each Flotilla and Squadron. > > > >Inflatable life jackets will be distributed to local units which will be >responsible for the custody, maintenance, and utilization of this equipment >and annual reporting of the local inventory through respective chain of >command to the Office of Auxiliary and Boating Safety, Program Operations >Branch (CG-54222). The expectation is that they will be leveraged to provide >the maximum possible exposure to support the wearing of life jackets. > > > > > > > >Peter Urgola, > > >USCG Auxiliary > > >Chief, Vessel Examination Dept. > > > >Bob Miller > >US Power Squadrons > >Chairman, VSC Committee > > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080227/532d7149/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:25:37 -0500 >From: Dave Donkers >Subject: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? >To: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group >Message-ID: <47E10641.6080702 at aps.anl.gov> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > >Greetings -- > >OK - this is a bit long, but bear with me..... > >I have just come across the USPS Guide, "The One-Minute >Guide to the Nautical Rules of the Road", by Charlie Wing, >published by McGraw-Hill and available through USPS. > >I have found it to be an excellent guide to the rules, >written in plain language and giving clear descriptions >of what the rules mean to recreational boaters. It's an >"easy read" - you can pick it up and start anywhere and >get something useful out of it. > >It has a section that has the Rules in full (with some >explanatory material added). No, I haven't proofed it to >check that it's accurate word-for-word. > >The reason I'm writing this is not as a book review, but >because the book states on the cover that it "Satisfies >Coast Guard requirements for carrying the rules on board". > >33CFR88.05 states "The operator of each self-propelled >vessel 12 meters or more in length shall carry on board >and maintain for ready reference a copy of the Inland >Navigation Rules." Hmmmm... No mention of having to carry >the International Rules, but I'm sure that's in there >somewhere. 8^) > >As Vessel Examiners can we accept this book instead of the >traditional red/white/blue bound COMDINST M16672xxxx? > >Almost more importantly, if we pass a vessel that is only >carries this book and they get inspected by the USCG, will >the USCG accept it? I don't want to put a boater in a >position where they might get a ticket for something we >accept - they've got our name and phone number on the form. > >I know the argument that "If you've got the money for a boat >XX feet long, spend the money for a 'regulation' copy...". >Let's face it, money is tight, and I'd rather suggest a copy >of the rules that gets used that having one that sits in a >locker getting moldy. > >By the way, the book lists for $18.95 on the McGraw-Hill >website, but your SEO can order them for $13.50. If they're >acceptable, sell them for 15 or 16 bucks and let your >squadron make some money. > >Any advice, approvals, comments etc.? > >Dave Donkers >VSC Chair >Education Officer >DuPage Power Squadron > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:42:56 EDT >From: ShaunMcA at aol.com >Subject: Re: [ve-l] USPS Guide OK for COLREGS carriage requirement? >To: donkers at aps.anl.gov >Cc: ve-l at usps.org >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Dave, > >Since the USCG does the boarding and is the ultimate arbiter, I suggest >asking them. > >P/C Shaun McArdle, AP >Vessel Examiner >SAN DIEGO SAIL& POWER SQUADRON > > > >**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL >Home. >(http://home.aol com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://www.usps org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/ecb40e16/attachment.html > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >ve-l mailing list >ve-l at usps.org >http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l > > >End of ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 1 >*********************************** R.D. Daybell _______________________________________________ ve-l mailing list ve-l at usps.org http://www.usps.org/mailman/listinfo/ve-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080319/3a01e272/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Rod -------Original Message------- From: Katharine Law Date: 29-Mar-08 01:37:46 To: 7seas at whidbey.net Cc: Vessel Examiners Discussion Group Subject: Re: [ve-l] ve-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 5 Dear Bob; With regard to the probability of boarding, I always advise the boaters when I'm doing a VSC that. although we cannot guarantee that there is a lesser prospect of boarding, we can assure them that--if boarded--they will have an infinitely more satisfactory experience than if they had NOT had a VSC. Katharine S. Law Sam Diego SPS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080329/6f71f02e/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 15700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.usps.org/pipermail/ve-l/attachments/20080329/6f71f02e/attachment-0001.gif